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Is the China bubble about to burst?

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Toronto, ON, Canada, — An aggressive and arrogant China is entering 2010 with a bit of uncertainty. Although there was no let-up in its exports in 2009, its internal financial position looks uncertain. China watchers are expecting a bubble that will eventually burst.

In 2009 banks in China lent internally about US$1.4 trillion to businesses, including the real estate industry, with dubious performance records. James Chanos, a successful U.S. stock market dealer, has predicted that China’s financial collapse could be far worse than Dubai’s.

China soothsayers wish to prove Chanos wrong – and they may be right. With US$2.2 trillion in foreign reserves, it would seem China could weather any storm. But the problem is that its cash reserves are uncashable. The United States and Europe are not just waiting to repatriate the money to China. So China could be left to its own devices if it faces a financial storm where markets tumble and poor people with money tied to investments see their savings vanish.

Easy credit, too much money in the economy, excessive foreign direct investment, a completely undervalued currency and rising real estate prices have definitely created a bubble. This bubble could burst with any minor international event. That is the price China would have to pay for designing policies that serve Western consumer markets.

But there is a silver lining. All the foreign direct investment of the last 25 years, amounting to about US$900 billion, which has gone into building the economy, will serve China well. Factories will continue to produce and Western consumers will continue to buy consumer goods. So China will recover.

But there still remain a few economic aspects that will be debated for years. These include US$2 trillion spent in the last 30 years to improve and rebuild infrastructure. This is too much for a yet underdeveloped economy that is exclusively dependent on exports. Although this has given China a neat and clean look, the huge expense without an internal consumer economy is dubious economics.

Take for example the investments in larger-than-needed mega-infrastructure projects like the high-speed rail network or the hugely expensive Olympic projects and other prestigious airports and road projects.

Consider this: real estate values increased by 70 percent in Chinese cities in 2009, far beyond the average household’s affordable level. The stock market has skyrocketed by 80 percent beating even the best predictions for 2009. As the average Chinese have major investments in both these sectors, there will be turmoil if both sectors crash in 2010. If so, the U.S. recession of 2008-2009 would pale in contrast and China’s economic crisis could rival the U.S. depression of 1930.

Why are so many economists and brokers forecasting China’s internal implosion? Simply because they are reading about China’s US$580 billion stimulus package, the US$1.4 trillion lent by banks to the rich and powerful in China and the US$80 billion in foreign direct investment received in 2009. These are huge amounts of money that cannot be ignored.

This river of money has ended up in China’s real estate and stock markets. Everybody in the West knows what happens when markets shoot up too fast. They drop as rapidly as they rise, sinking tons of money. In the event of a stock market crash, all this money will evaporate and ruin the financial health of the country for a long time to come.

It is difficult to pinpoint when China will implode, but it seems certain that the laws of economics will take their due course. In this scenario, opportunists from the West, backed by Western money, will come into China’s financial markets and buy healthy Chinese companies on fire sale. Chinese investors will cry foul but to no avail. This will not be an end of the Chinese economy but rather a sobering reminder.

This scenario is very much on China’s mind. On Jan. 20, world stock markets reacted sharply to the announcement by the chairman of China’s Banking Regulatory Commission that China will slow its massive lending spree in 2010, which is an indication that behind all the fat claims of China being the second-largest economy or the largest exporter, lies a sobering realization that all is not well in the economy.

Elsewhere in the world, the United States, Canada, Europe and Japan are not doing as well as anticipated. The precarious banking position of 2009 has been stabilized in Europe and the United States. But the economy will continue in the doldrums for a while.

The 7 million Americans left unemployed due to the U.S. banking crisis are not about to be employed. They will have to wait. In Europe the position is slightly better. The Japanese economy is not yet on a recovery path but may soon be.

The Indian economy, mostly consumer driven, stayed unaffected by the 2008-2009 global recession barring the immediate impact on a few sectors at the onset of the U.S. banking woes. It will grow as much as the Chinese economy is likely to in 2010, if one believes Chinese statistics.

The Indian economy for the past 50 years has remained isolated and so has largely been immune to the pulls and pressures of the Western world. Also, large amounts of cash flowing in as foreign direct investment, remittances from Indians living abroad, and institutional investments from abroad in the stock and bonds market have helped the economy.

India does not have much to show off in exports, manufacturing or new infrastructure. But what it has, alone with its immunity to Western pressure and its general stability, is worth laurels.

Therefore, putting together the negative and positive ramifications for the Chinese economy, it is easy to conclude that China’s financial and real estate troubles are real. The manufacturing economy, although linked to consumers in the West, will chug it along. This is the best that the Chinese can hope for.

Unexpectedly, the United States may see an opportunity to press China to revise its currency, which has stayed largely undervalued. This is not a pretty picture for China.

Additional concerns arise when one notes that in an average good year prior to 2009, 20 percent of China’s bank loans went sour. In contrast, average bad bank loans elsewhere in the world were 2 percent. With huge bank disbursements in 2009, mostly to unsavory but well-connected people, China’s bad loan position may jump to 30-40 percent. So no matter how one looks at it, China’s financial markets are headed for trouble.

China’s manufacturing economy will soon face problems of its own. It was in 1979 that Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping instituted a one-child policy that won accolades in the West. Since then, the population base is growing old. The manufacturing sector will have trouble replacing old retiring workers with young ones.

Also, smartly educated youngsters may not opt for factory jobs, preferring office jobs or high-end technical jobs. There is no dearth of labor in China to run assembly lines or work on simple construction projects. But a major production disruption is possible if nobody wants to work on these jobs.

Big troubles are forecast for the Chinese economy in the near term and it is all because it is trying to outdo the West. If trouble strikes, it is the West that will gain.

--

(Hari Sud is a retired vice president of C-I-L Inc., a former investment strategies analyst and international relations manager. A graduate of Punjab University and the University of Missouri, he has lived in Canada for the past 34 years. ©Copyright Hari Sud.)



[ Flag ]
schwzik @ February 4, 2010 02:47AM HKT
A very balanced view has been expressed here.
it is only time that the bubble breaks...I am used to seeing large building projects, with no occupants and literally no work going on in and around beijing and north east china areas. Now i can see some work under progress but still no buyers, no one moving in those new houses. Contrarily in India, the real estate has been on the move always. In China many factories making christmas goods pulled shutters and company owners fled to Taiwan, no such news were heard in India. Perhaps Louii can explain, whats wrong here, and also can explain why Chinamen cannot sing the song they wish to sing at KTV bars!!!

[ Flag ]
gunasekar @ February 3, 2010 10:56AM HKT
louis,

just watch cnn and see how obama engages the public and the congress with question and answers live............ chinkies never do this with their citizen.......... what a shame....

[ Flag ]
Jo @ February 3, 2010 05:24AM HKT
Do not worry mathematically (proved in 2007 and with even my synereconologistics Int'l econo-politico-social forecasting system) China is going to spend an outrageous amount of money from 2012 to do roads,Healthcare,fight huge pollution,get their people some electrical goods and cars per families,and for trying to find new partners in biz as about 12 countries will pull out of Chinese making goods and about a dozen others will have "made in" goods in Romania,Turkey,part of India and then some... China? Like a match,a quick flame. It will teach their government and quite some people there that money in a long term only works if it has some Social entrepreneurship value (as small as it can be) and if people via themselves are themselves,not just to exist under the boot...The clock is tickin...before there were many cheap goods flooding the market "made in Hong kong'"made in Taiwan",Made in Japan"...where are they now for those goods and that top of the list power? China and Thailand,Malaysia,Indonesia and the Philippines are next,from 2012 to 2015,then,a new cooler age will start very sooner that you think..I have been right a along since 1991. The USA will come back because they walk their talk for the people

[ Flag ]
slope @ February 2, 2010 10:08PM HKT
Sara, here are the linx to substantiate your claim
h ttp://ww w.abs-cbnnews.co m/lifestyle/02/01/10/sexual-frustration-causing-social-problems-china
ht tp://ww w.domain-b.c om/economy/worldeconomy/20100201_china_oneView.html

[ Flag ]
sara @ February 2, 2010 09:12PM HKT
China shows a GDP growth of 8%
But unemployment in china is rising there are 20 million migrant workers who lost the job despite of the good GDP growth posted by china
And in the domain-b article it was mentioned manufacturing sector declines by 2% but still chinese economy grews

But china knows that even if they post Fake GDP Pakistani's Dumb's like LOUIS will support them and argue for them

Keep on arguing Louis and prove urself Dumb

All the best

[ Flag ]
Louis @ February 2, 2010 12:21PM HKT

When China reveals its new GDP, you will get surprise again of its real figure.

[ Flag ]
gunasekar @ February 2, 2010 10:33AM HKT
chinese people controlled by the gun on their head.........

communist are cowards that afraid to get their mandate to rule by vote .........
I will say it again, all Chinese please close down your Chinatown and go back to your ancestor birthplace....

most chinese will only go to China for vacation, they hate to live permanently there by giving up their chinatown citizenship overseas....

the only thing man built monuments are the forbidden city and the great wall of shame china (also acts as graveyard for tens of thousand died while constructing it)

what an inferior structures compared to the rest of the ancient world monument....


[ Flag ]
HariSud @ February 2, 2010 02:35AM HKT

China says provinces cook up GDP figures news

01 February 2010

China, which uses its GDP figures as a political tool to impress its citizens and the world at large, said over the weekend that its provincial governments may be rigging their growth statistics figures to show how capable they are of managing their local economies.


read the full paper at .domain-b.com


[ Flag ]
gunasekar @ February 1, 2010 11:01PM HKT
tiu nia ka hai

chao chi bai louis...........

[ Flag ]
Louis @ February 1, 2010 09:51PM HKT
China pledges more support for rural poor

BEIJING — China will boost spending in rural areas and letmore farmers migrate to urban areas in a bid to close the widening income gap between villages and cities, government officials said Monday.

India is effective in its inaction to help its pariahs. Indian pariahs will be pariahs forever. They don't know they need to protest for their rights.

China is worlds different!

[ Flag ]
Louis @ February 1, 2010 09:47PM HKT

La Go Go’s Growth Shows China Consumer Spending Power

China’s annual consumption will increase more than six times by 2027 to as much as $10 trillion annually and already is an engine of world economic growth, according to O’Neill.

“This is a consumption-led recovery in China, it’s not based on unsustainable investment,” he said in a Dec. 11 interview with Bloomberg Television.

The Chinese economy may expand as much as 16 percent this year if the government doesn’t wind back stimulus measures, Yao Zhizhong and He Fan, economists with the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said in an article published in the official China Securities Journal today.

China will take “vigorous” steps to boost household spending and reduce a reliance on investment and exports, President Hu Jintao said Nov. 13.

[ Flag ]
Louis @ February 1, 2010 09:40PM HKT

India is effective in its inaction to help its pariahs. Indian pariahs will be pariahs forever. They don't know they need to protest for their rights.

China is worlds different!

BEIJING - CHINA will boost spending in rural areas and let more farmers migrate to urban areas in a bid to close the widening income gap between villages and cities, government officials said on Monday.

This will mark the sixth consecutive year that China has boosted its budget for rural areas, Mr Chen said. Last year, the government spent 764.1 billion yuan (S$157.9 billion ) - up 120 billion yuan from the previous year.

[ Flag ]
Louis @ February 1, 2010 09:36PM HKT

Figure speaks everything!!!

THE Asia-Pacific region has overtaken North America as the world's largest air travel market with 647 million passengers in 2009, the International Air Transport Association (IATA) said on Monday.

Within Asia, China has eclipsed Japan over the past decade as the region's largest domestic market, with 1,400 aircraft compared with Japan's 540 and 5.7 million weekly seats against 2.6 million in Japan.

[ Flag ]
Louis @ February 1, 2010 08:57PM HKT

Why you only read IndiaToday?

You know how much pariah earn???
And how many of them there???

You are just a poor Indian when you are in Shanghai or Beijing.

[ Flag ]
gunasekar @ February 1, 2010 01:22PM HKT
communist = Greatest super power ever?????

hahahaha............ nothing last forever.......

[ Flag ]
Louis @ February 1, 2010 12:41PM HKT

We never know how the logic of economy evolve itself.

Who knows: Capitalism + Marx + Sino Culture = Greatest Super Power Ever

Democracy + Caste + Capitalism = Disintegration + More Pariah

[ Flag ]
gunasekar @ February 1, 2010 09:07AM HKT
capitalism can never correct inbalance of income except through charity and the government through taxation and better redistribution of wealth....

china is a disgrace....call itself communist but involved in free market....what a disgrace to karl marx ideology...............

good view wynde...lousy louis ....why dont you comment on wynde??

[ Flag ]
Louis @ February 1, 2010 12:00AM HKT

China's first part of its economic reform (let few gets rich first) seems successful. Now it needs to have the crucial one, lets the rich ones spread their rich to the rest.It is the most difficult part. But with the transformed of rule and law and its improved effectiveness, it can be successful. Admittedly, not easy but can be done by Chinese, a determined and clever people.

India definitely will have a softer (if any) correction. BUT The key word is 'if any'. With its ingrained-ness of caste system, the pariahs deem their poorness as a fate well endow on them.

So reform or correction? These will only happen in hell where there is no caste.

[ Flag ]
wynde @ January 31, 2010 11:41PM HKT
China's domestic economy is badly out of whack.
If there is an imbalance it will be absorbed by the poor.Similar to the West the Rich can withstand any financial shock with the imbalance tricling down to the 500,000,000 peasants.
As a result the outside world will not be affected but I think we can expect substantial civil disorder.
India,although the population is similar to China with respect to the class system ie very rich and very poor.......BUT India,being a democracy and not hell bent to rule the world will experience a softer [if any] correction.

[ Flag ]
Louis @ January 31, 2010 04:45PM HKT
India is the best country in the world, but why this??

LONDON - BRITAIN has temporarily suspended student visa applications from northern India, Nepal and Bangladesh after a sharp rise in numbers, the UK Border Agency (UKBA) said on Sunday.

The suspension of the applications follows recent media reports that unscrupulous businessmen are helping thousands of migrants from India and Pakistan to obtain a place at bogus colleges in Britain. -- AFP

[ Flag ]
Louis @ January 31, 2010 04:42PM HKT
Chinese spends their money!!!

BEIJING - CHINA'S online tourism market is booming as an increasingly wealthy middle class travels for pleasure and the use of credit cards and the Internet soars, analysts say.

'People's lifestyle attitudes have changed and their spending ability has improved and people now view holidays as part of a healthy lifestyle,' the firm said in its latest report on the fast-growing sector.

[ Flag ]
Louis @ January 31, 2010 04:34PM HKT

Harisud, see what last time you accessed of China is done exactly by India.
Be a fair Indian with your universal values, Harisud.

Jan 31, 2010
India to reject binding carbon cuts

NEW DELHI - INDIA reaffirmed to the United Nations that it would reject any attempt to impose legally binding climate change goals, but pledged to reduce emissions intensity.

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ January 31, 2010 10:30AM HKT
Whatever you are, India do not need anyone like you. Most of Indians I know are good, hardworking, honest people. If every Indian is like you, India would have no hope. This article is by another Indians who is so bias and make guys like Goebbels proud.

Hari

You omit that China is now the world's largest auto market and world's largest auto producer. India only produced 1/5 of China's automobiles. But India can export more now because China's internal market is buying all these cars. In the case of cars, India is more prone to affects of foreign market. Also, China is now India's #1 market. If China's economy goes down the drain, so would India's.

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ January 31, 2010 05:18AM HKT
I'm not a Pakistani. You fool. I grew up here in America and I'm a Christian. Are you a Christian or muslim, Slope.
The truth is that India is falling further and further behind that of China and will never catch up with the current rate of growth for both countries. As for Pakistan, I'm not a real fan of that country as I'm a supporter of Israel. I'm sad that Israel has anything to do with you guys.

[ Flag ]
slope @ January 31, 2010 04:29AM HKT
you are just like the rest of your pakistanis, who wish for India as a loser state, but, unfortunately for you, the economists are predicting the other way around.

those moslems, who are lucky enough to live in west are a pressure on the social benefits of the western countries. just go on you-tube and type islamic terrorism and muslim demographics. see if I wrote anything wrong about the islam (terrorism).

name any country which has any respect for your fanatic islam including china, which has secretly killed some half a million uighurs just in last ten years.

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ January 31, 2010 02:19AM HKT
Also, Indian bubble would burst if its domestic driven economy start to lost momentum. Less country would feel the need to put money in India to save its economy. As a result, it will be a fall like a tree in the forest. No one would hear it.

[ Flag ]
slope @ January 31, 2010 02:16AM HKT
harisucker doesn't like to be in touch with reality. I mean it hurts him real bad about his ancestral PAKIstan be a loser, failed state. what else can you expect from islam?
what makes arabs rich? the oil. without it, they are just like somalis and sudanese, " a failed race" hellbent terrorists.

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ January 31, 2010 01:25AM HKT
Slope, all you can do as an Indian is to make others like Pakistan. Yes, Indian economy is growing faster than that of Pakistans. But when Pakistani economy start to surpass that of India, you would call people in here Somali pirates until your India is the fail state like it deserves.

[ Flag ]
slope @ January 30, 2010 11:31PM HKT
listen folks!

who is running PAKIland today, Americans and behind the wall their new masters, chinese.

pakis will wag their tails for their masters, whoever gives them the bone. it appears china bone is more delicious than america's $7.5 billion++.

don't argue with these two international beggars, they have absolutely nothing to be proud of. what is pakistan today? living off the handouts from USA and weapons from china, the sharia super power :-)

[ Flag ]
gunasekar @ January 30, 2010 07:22PM HKT
china is tower of babel...........

china commies worry day and nite of its citizen going to revolt against them....tiananmen, tibet, xinjiang, Hong Kong.....sleepless nite ehh.....

indian government does not worry about the poor citizens revolt against them...... the constitution of Indian does not be guarded by the government or army......... the people will guard it and respect it without being told by anybody..... unlike the chinkies.....

since their first emperor till Pu Yi, now the communists....they all have sleepless nights everyday about their empire crumbling from within......

[ Flag ]
gunasekar @ January 30, 2010 06:52PM HKT
value of a country does not lie in the looks of the city but the heart of the people.... who want to live like zombies in china???

louis... go ahead....leave USA and return back to your fatherland...
you are an embarrassment to the americans...

[ Flag ]
Louis @ January 30, 2010 03:46PM HKT

Go to China and see for yourself, for god's sake.

Kuala Lumpur is hardly even a match to any second tier city in China.Let alone any city in India can.

Not any Indian city is comparable even to Kuala Lumpur. Kuala Lumpur should be a model city for India to surpass first before even having Shanghai in mind.

Shanghai is comparable to Singapore.
Can Kuala Lumpur match Singapore?
Can Mumbai match Kuala Lumpur?
Is peanut comparable to diamond?

[ Flag ]
Louis @ January 30, 2010 03:36PM HKT

Indians like Harisud, slope, gunasekar, sara need to learn to be humble and learn. Stop being big head and talking big.

If you go to India, you will see all these big head and talking big Indians boasting like no hell of how good and how developed Indian is, they even say that there is no slum in India...my GOD...

Indians' stupidity and arrogance really can make the world speechless...yet funny...how this type of country and people can develop...

[ Flag ]
Louis @ January 30, 2010 03:28PM HKT

Did you see how Indian army parading recently?

It was like circussing...

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ January 30, 2010 01:49PM HKT
Hari sud is just a China hater. We need to consider his bias before realize why he ignore the fact that China is now the world's largest automobile producer and consumer. Not just producer and consumer. China is just an exporting economy is unfounded. With a decrease in export for most of 2009, China posted increase in GDP, which shows its strength in domestic economy. India, which relies less on export, has less GDP growth. This just demonstrated that Chinese domestic economy has the fastest rate of growth and highest absolute volume of growth. As it leads the world again in absolute growth, the 2nd year it has surpassed USA and there is no looking back. Frankly, India is way behind China in economy, at least 20 years behind. With India's infrastructure, not many would invest in India. Especially manufacturing goods that rely on good ports and roads and sufficient electricity

[ Flag ]
Coolhead @ January 30, 2010 11:18AM HKT

HariSud: look at this Reuters Factbox page, comparing China's and India's consumer markets.

reuters.com /article/idUSHKG5363720090612

For example, 2009 China's PC market shipment is almost 5 TIMES that of India's PC market. Just look at all those numbers and see how you can keep bragging about India's consumer market.

[ Flag ]
Coolhead @ January 30, 2010 11:05AM HKT

HariSud: Something to show your ignorance:

Credit Suisse survey shows Chinese consumer spending jumps

Hong Kong, January 12, 2010 Chinese households are earning more but saving less, according to Credit Suisse. Based on the Bank’s latest proprietary China Consumer Survey, household income of the bottom 20% of those surveyed has risen by 50% since 2004, while the top 10% has grown 255% to around RMB34,000 per month. The savings rate has dropped from 26% to 12% during the same period. Credit Suisse expects China’s share of global consumption to increase from 5.2% at US$1.72 trillion in 2009 to 23.1% at US$15.94 trillion in 2020, overtaking the US as the largest consumer market in the world.

credit-suisse.com /news/en/media_release.jsp?ns=41389


[ Flag ]
slope @ January 30, 2010 09:07AM HKT
list of countries of 5th world:
1 PAKIland, afganistan, bangledesh, somalia, yemen, sudan. they all have one thing in common. islam.

[ Flag ]
HariSud @ January 30, 2010 07:10AM HKT


Here is India's population growth chart as recently released internationally:

Population growth

1901-1950 - 1%

1951-1980 - 2.2%

1981-1990 - 2.1%

1991-2000 - 1.8%

2001-2010 - 1.6-1.7%

Think twice if India is going to slide into fifth world. Not at all. The above above population growth is just the right to maintain a healthy labor balance.

The country is totally unlike China where a Political Commissar can order the beggar out and if he persists spends his life in jail or gets excecuted. That is the reason there are no beggars in China.

What China is to worry is that when India is going to bypass China. Given the upcoming financial crisis in China, it will happen sooner than later.

Cheers


Hari

[ Flag ]
Louis @ January 30, 2010 12:38AM HKT
I afraid India will slide into fifth world if its population keeps on growing.

Does the big head Indians ever think how to feed and provide jobs for this growing population?
Even now there are slums and beggars on the streets, can Indian solve its current issues save for the future one in the making if it doesn't slow down its growing population?

[ Flag ]
Louis @ January 30, 2010 12:37AM HKT
India needs to curd its big head and talking big syndrome to join into third world from forth world.

[ Flag ]
Louis @ January 30, 2010 12:33AM HKT

If Harisud goes to Shanghai, he will fell himself very poor with only average spending power.

[ Flag ]
gunasekar @ January 29, 2010 11:33PM HKT
china is tower of babel................









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