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China and India survive 2008-09 mini-depression

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Toronto, ON, Canada, — The mini-depression of 2008-2009 will be remembered as the one that felled the mighty West but let China and India prosper. China grew at 9 percent and India at 7 percent this year, while the United States and Europe suffered a crippling 3.5 percent drop in their growth rates.

The recession also idled 6 million people in the United States and a similar number in Europe. This is no heavenly curse on the West, but the result of its spendthrift behavior. India survived because it is not yet economically tied to the West in a big way, but rather is an internally consuming economy. China is a different matter.

China should have fared worse as 60 percent of its gross national product is consumed in the West. But it survived and prospered because it instituted a large stimulus package that pushed consumption, although its value and amounts are disputed. Also, its exports continued as usual, helped by its low currency value.

Financially strapped consumers in the West flocked to low-priced, low quality goods from China. The United States, being the biggest debtor of China, could do nothing to stop the flood of cheap goods. China growled every time the idea to free float its currency was raised.

The Indian economy suffered a major shock initially in late 2008 when its textile sector received no orders from the United States and Europe. Its information technology and business process outsourcing industries also braced for a major downturn. But again the West’s cash-strapped and money-losing financial and industrial sectors turned to India for low-cost services. The IT and BPO sectors did not grow by leaps and bounds like they did for the past eight years, but nevertheless they grew.

Three indirect stimulus packages that India instituted provided the cushion for industry to grow. These were cleverly designed financial incentives, unlike what the United States, China and Europe had done. The first economic stimulus, released on Dec. 7, 2008, gave a push to real estate, textiles and the automobile industry as well as to small and medium-scale industries. The second stimulus package in January 2009 mainly provided liquidity to businesses, lowered interest rates and withdrew government duties on certain items.

The first and second packages injected around US$40 billion to US$60 billion in the monetary system. The third stimulus package, unveiled in February this year, cut excise duties and service taxes on goods by 2 to 4 percent. The government decided to forgo another US$8 billion in tax revenues, but it was well worth it as it kept the wheels of industry humming.

The results of these well-managed incentives became apparent when the government as well as independent agencies forecast India’s growth to be around 6 to 7 percent. The recession elsewhere had bypassed India just as it had China.

The Chinese were too eager to announce their stimulus package, with an eye on their economy and the media publicity it would generate. When the United States announced a US$700 billion bailout for banks in November 2008 and was talking about another US$787 billion public works program, China pre-emptied it and unveiled its own US$586 billion stimulus package, which is 15 to16 percent of its gross national product.

Later it was realized that China’s stimulus package was not new money but funds that had already been earmarked for development. A small additional amount was directed toward the rural sector to address social, political and economic concerns. The government was concerned about a wave of sit-ins, protests and suicides and so pre-empted further unrest with the stimulus package. Thus China announced the 8 to 9 percent growth for 2009.

There is one curious note about statistics from China. If a drop from its previously announced 12 percent growth to around 7 percent for 2009 could cause so much uproar, then, is its published data correct?

Even the 7 percent growth is respectable by world standards. Then why was there such a commotion at the street level? The answer lies in the validity of published data. The 7 percent predicted growth is in fact China’s new zero. Fallacies like this remain in its statistics.

In the United States, Obama described his stimulus package in February as “investment and jobs.” He was referring to creating new jobs and growth for the future. He said he would invest in upgrading roads, bridges and electricity grids, refurbishing schools and colleges, harnessing the sun’s power as an energy source along with other renewable energy sources, and helping beleaguered homeowners.

These are job-creating initiatives and there was a great sigh of relief, as the worst hit sectors of the economy began to revive. But the initiative has not been without problems. Unemployment is still high and business profitability is a long way away. By all accounts, it is the vision of a person with a socialistic bent.

But the big stimulus package created a bigger deficit. The U.S. national debt has ballooned by US$1.4 trillion in a single year. The unemployment rate has risen from 6 to 10 percent, with 15 million people out of work. The question is, had this stimulus package not been unveiled, would the situation be any different? Had the spending been replaced with tax cuts as the opposition wanted, would the situation be any different? We will never know. Presently the economy is signaling a turnaround, and in a year all the bad times may be forgotten.

As for China, nobody has figured out how much new money was infused into China’s stimulus package. As most of it would have been spent anyway, the net change is minimal. Perhaps this was a mere public relations exercise rather than a stimulus package. Unlike in the United States, where stimulus funds come from federal and state governments, China’s package comes from state banks and state institutions, which have been asked to continue spending as usual.

Surprisingly, Chinese banks lent US$1.4 trillion in new loans in 2009. It will be interesting to see whether China will face a situation similar to Dubai’s debt crisis if some of the loans go bad.

Compared to the size of the Chinese economy, its US$586 billion stimulus package is astounding. I admire the Chinese for keeping domestic peace with all this money and labor.

India’s stimulus package is the most sophisticated. While the United States and China spent large amounts of money, India spent only about US$20 billion to $30 billion in new expenditures, with the rest in the form of financial incentives to various industries. This indicates the maturity of India’s political and economic leadership, which no longer carries the socialistic banner.

Also, the man at the helm of affairs in India – Prime Minister Manmohan Singh – is an economist. He resembles the U.S. Republicans who opposed government spending and wished for tax cuts instead.

India’s economy is predicted to grow by 7 to 8 percent in 2009. It is fairly well insulated from globalization and so incentives have had the desired impact. Also, as India’s domestic consumption is high, it is not greatly affected compared to China if there is a fall in consumption in the West.

The United States is slowly coming out of recession while China has put people back to work and its exports are maintaining momentum. India is doing well and looks confident of the future.

In short, 2009 saw three distinctly different economic stimulus packages at work to revive the global economy. Each had the same desired effect. Only time will tell which package is better.

--

(Hari Sud is a retired vice president of C-I-L Inc., a former investment strategies analyst and international relations manager. A graduate of Punjab University and the University of Missouri, he has lived in Canada for the past 34 years. ©Copyright Hari Sud.)



[ Flag ]
sara @ December 10, 2009 02:22PM HKT
Hi Buddy Slope: I am also having doubt about coolhead that he is a pakistani
bcoz u go to youtube check for pakistani's who type the comment they will always critisize india for everything .But i am typing comment here for time pass so Dont worry Buddy. i will not take anything serious .And thanks for calling me brother

[ Flag ]
slope @ December 10, 2009 10:30AM HKT
sara brother: oreo luigi is pimp who likes to just stir up the sh!t. he is gutless yellow. if you pay that female manager to use his sister/daughter the right price, he will stop criticizing ya.

don't argue with harisuck (ding dong) formerly "coolhead". ding dong doesn't like to lose the arguement. in his own words, he is not a chinaman but a pakistani. hey ding dong, i just started selling high intensity explosive belts, more powerful than the taliban has. ding dong, you only need one belt and today its your lucky day. I will give you the free belt and ride to china's embassy. take it dude!

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ December 10, 2009 09:53AM HKT
Sara

As for the Taiwan's view and stance on China. Just look up any site. Even wiki is helpful. Once you realize that Taiwan claim itself the legitimate government of the whole China, then we can talk.

[ Flag ]
sara @ December 9, 2009 12:53AM HKT
Hi Louis Aunty here is the link showing about indian modernisation program
for past decades and after kargil "kanglaonline.com /index.php?template=kshow&kid=1294"
"For well over a decade the army’s efforts to modernise had been thwarted due to political neglect and lack of adequate budgetary support." this is what is mentioned about indian army modernisation and after kargil the budget alloted was increased .So be a good sexy aunty and answer my questions properly

[ Flag ]
Louis @ December 8, 2009 06:03PM HKT

Sara, you has dementia I think.

I have shown you numerous links to prove my points in other discussion with you, but what is the use, it has gone down to the drain with Indian twisting.

Be a good girl, go search by yourself and have a thorough analyzing with different links.You have to use your tiny brain to think and compare, and not all links are trustworthy. After studies, the best is like me, go the the concerned places and has a field study like what I did to India, China, Taiwan.

I can't think for yourself, you have to do it yourself, be a grown-up Indian, good girl...

[ Flag ]
sara @ December 8, 2009 04:14PM HKT
Hey harisuck good answer i have one question for you also u said the following points in ur comment ""do you know that Taiwan claims whole China as part of Taiwan" show me some links in the internet justifying ur points then we can carry out our discussion

[ Flag ]
sara @ December 8, 2009 04:10PM HKT
Hey louis i have only one question for you
Show me one link in the internet talking about modernizing indian army Before kargil and try to analyse the indian defence budget Before Kargil and After Kargil .Try to answer this simple question then we can continue our discussion
dont deviate the topic i need a straight answer or some links given by you About modernizing Indian army Before Kargil

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ December 8, 2009 09:14AM HKT
slope

why stoop down to name calling. Is it because you realized that Sara doesn't have his fact straight so instead of taking it out on Sara, you take it out on Louis.

Its time for both India and China to work together. You should know by now that Hari just inflames his audiance.

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ December 8, 2009 09:11AM HKT
sara,

have you look up what China is to Taiwan yet? Get the facts straight before we continue to talk. Even when you talk big, you cannot make too big of a joke out of yourself with a complete lack of basic understanding. Even for a Indian, you talk too big.

[ Flag ]
Louis @ December 8, 2009 03:30AM HKT

Indian Sara said"let me update on thing it's not bcoz china indiais modernizing it's force it's after Kargil india started modernizing.'

Ha...now I know why India needs wasted billions and billions dollars to buy Russian Air Carrier, submarines, and on the way to negotiate another A.C. from UK, not because of China, but there they all to be employed at 'Kargil Ocean'. Ha...Sara, Cute Sara.

It confirmed what I said: China definitely will avoid war with India, because China knows that by merely it own mighty existence alone will make India terrified and keep on buying for expensive weaponry. Its result will be the same way of Russian disintegration and collapse.

I am a neutral observer of both countries, I know India and Indians almost inside out, now getting to know China even deeper into its culture, language. China will win hands down.

And last, Sara still don't know what China is to Taiwan, obviously.




[ Flag ]
sara @ December 8, 2009 02:23AM HKT
Hey louis for ur poor knowledge one more thing u said "Russian disintegration and collapse" its bcoz they competed with America and went to bankruptcy and collapsed and also u are forgetting one more reason for the collapse which is the communist rule . so will this apply to china or india .Take india's defence spending and china spending india is building its defensive capability
against china not offensive But russia tried to make Offensive capability with America that let the collapse which is what india is not doing .So again a rubbish point from u Better luck Next time for ur job which is critizing india

[ Flag ]
sara @ December 8, 2009 02:12AM HKT
hey louis for ur poor knowledge let me update one more thing Harisuck who is chinese guy said the following words in his comment "do you know that Taiwan claims whole China as part of Taiwan" Its not me who talked about Taiwan
its Harisuck who is a chinese guy talked about Taiwan and then i replied
So dont say i am Twisting or Diverting the topic If u have Clear eye sight go through the comments of Harisuck and then Talk

[ Flag ]
sara @ December 8, 2009 02:06AM HKT
Hey louis for ur poor knowledge let me update on thing it's not bcoz china india
is modernizing it's force it's after Kargil india started modernizing. bcoz indian army lacks in artillery division which is more important and indian air-force has only 32 suadrons from the required 36 squadrons so we are modernizing that for having the the default squadrons so where is china coming here .Answer to these questions in a proper way and i dont want to confuse u by asking lot of questions Bcoz i know that it's useles talking to a chinese guy like guy there may be some good chinese guy who can answer in a proper way and u are not that

[ Flag ]
Louis @ December 7, 2009 10:52PM HKT
con't

China definitely will avoid war with India, because China knows that by merely it own mighty existence alone will make India terrified and keep on buying for expensive weaponry. Its result will be the same way of Russian disintegration and collapse.

With 0 bullet China will defeat India in the end, I assure you.

[ Flag ]
Louis @ December 7, 2009 10:51PM HKT

There is no point of talking to Indians, I am assuring you.

Just see how Sara talk of Taiwan and China as if he knows them.
He has to come to Taiwan and China and talk to them. He obviously has big 0 knowledge of Taiwan history and equal its history to India Federation's or of United States of America's. Ha...Sara, you has make a great display of yourself of your poor knowledge.

And even he knows what is Mainland China is to Taiwan, so what, he will just twisting and switching the facts to suit his needs as he Indians always do.

China is not interested with India and definitely not going to war with it.What is India to China? China set its eye to develop itself to equal and finally surpass USA in every way.Only USA is the rightly match for China.

And India not going to war with China either, because India knows it is a big country. Big meaning big head, big mouth and last but not least talking big. Indians themselves know it there is no way of war between the two for he knows what the dreadful result is.THEY TALK BECAUSE THEY ARE FEAR! THAT'S ALL.


[ Flag ]
sara @ December 7, 2009 10:09PM HKT
What a good answer. U said Taiwan claiming the whole china .It sound like
if i say Pakistan is claiming America then how pathetic it will be u are saying an answer like that .China is considered as a upcoming superpower only america,russia,japan can handle china incase of war taiwan is no match comparable to china in all the aspects .So do you think Taiwan dares to do so It can defend its border from china it can never claim the whole china of its own .As i said earlier u are the third chinese i am talking to but all of u are having the same attitude trying to cover up ur country's greednesss,human-rights on ur own people and ur copied missile,Aircraft,Tanks .Try to change ur attitude and accept others point if its valid .And still dont make stupid comments that Taiwan is claiming china Only uneducated person will talk like this i have doubt regarding this with you??????

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ December 7, 2009 04:13PM HKT
The last time I checked, India claimed a large track of land under Chinese control. I also do not want to get into who is doing what but India also occupy territories claimed by China. As for your question on whether India has border dispute with all of its neighbors, the answer is no but almost. It has no dispute with Burma, I believe. It has dispute with all other countries border India.
As for China and its neighbor, it has resolve border issues with Vietnam and Russia and both countries are friendly to each other. With Japan, its island and resource dispute. As with Taiwan, do you know that Taiwan claims whole China as part of Taiwan. Actually, all of China plus Mongolia minus Hong Kong and Macou. But China borders a lot more countries and China is able to resolve the issues (even major ones such as with Vietname and Russia) India is not willing as it expect total capatuation of its neighbors

[ Flag ]
sara @ December 7, 2009 03:48PM HKT
Hey harisuck i will ask u simple question u talked about Jealous of india

Is india asking any part of china ?
Have india stopped any ADB Bank loans for development works in Arunachal?
does india has Border dispute with all of its neighbour?

the answer to all this question is NO with respect to china the answer is YES
Does china economy is going to be affected when arunachal is with india
the answer is no And u having border sipute whith Russia,japan,india,taiwan all still more what u call this attitude of ur country as? is it a jeaulos Act or a Graeat Attitude
dont answer like these coolhead or louis answer in a proper way

[ Flag ]
sara @ December 7, 2009 03:42PM HKT
Hey harisuck i expected u will also talk like the guys Louis,coolhead
u proved that u said "I won't be surprise if guys like slope or Sara still believe that China still fight with swords, bows and arrows." when did i say
china dont have superior weapons than india just made fun for your comment which is about sending N-sub to Moon for water .U are the third chinese guy i am talking with who will start critizing india at first and when we reply u will say we are hotheads.r u thinking indian people or goverment is talking decision as per Hari-sud article and there is no Neutal-Journalist in india .If it's so all the bad news u are talking about the slums,miisile failure would not come to light.
we dont have any media restriction as u have in china.And china is the second largest trading partner for india now .So who is talking about war If u think a goverment will go to war by seeing hari-sud article i can judge ur knowledge u are also same as these guys coolhead,louis

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ December 7, 2009 07:26AM HKT
Slope

Arer you sure that you are not Hari sud himself? You seem to hate China as a country and as a people as much as Hari himself. Your solution of destroying China is for others to stop trading with China and stop investing with China. You are just jealous and China's economic development. Your suggestion and Hari's suggestion will never happen as most people are not pinheads like you. Mosts countries want to trade with the fastest growing economy and make sure that they have access to the large Chinese market. This year, China is projected to surpass Japan as the largest auto producing country and surpass America as the largest auto consuming country. Also, China is building roads, railroads, ports and other infrastructure. As for your rant about China supporting a country or against Dalai Lama, these are just your execuse for your jealousy. Also, you are just one sided in your view that any serious observer would find you lack of any credibility.

[ Flag ]
slope @ December 7, 2009 06:12AM HKT
harisuck, why are you only advising the indians? your commies in china are dreaming of vivisection of india and have proliferated islamic terrorist countries with nukes and missiles. they have been harrassing dalai lama, the symbol of peace. that makes china a country which deserves american wrath. china is a rogue nation, which has clandestinely supported terrorism. the world should forget about foot soldiers like pakiland and north korea, instead concentrate on china by snapping all trade relations, banning its imports and stop investing. see how fast china wakes up.

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ December 7, 2009 05:50AM HKT
cont...

Also, certain irresponsible indian journalist like Hari like to make a big news about India launching a ship or induct an airplane. I won't be surprise if guys like slope or Sara still believe that China still fight with swords, bows and arrows. This is could be the fact that instigates crisis between China and India and average Indians are dupe to believe that Indian forces are far superior to Chinese PLA and the Chinese can be easily defeated. If Indian forces actually go on offensive against China, the result would be worse than 1962 for India.

As both Chinese and Indian economy are both growing. Both country should seek more trade and cultural exchanges. The journalist on both side should advocate peace and cooperation instead of sabre rattling. That way, millions of people can be lifted out of poverty in both nations.

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ December 7, 2009 05:49AM HKT
You are going to claim that India is going to defeat China. But that is equavelent of Pakistanis claim that they would defeat India. The Pakistani force only serve as a deterrent against the Indian force. The Indian force only has a deterrant against Chinese attack. And the Chinese force only can serve as a deterrant against the American force. There is no way that Chinese forces can beat Americans if Americans unleash its full potential against eh Chinese. The same can be say about Indians against Chinese and Pakistani against India.

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ December 7, 2009 05:49AM HKT
Slope..

First of all, I'm not Pakistani. I'm an oversea Chinese originally from outside of China and I'm not a fan of CCP. Also, I do not like to war between countries, such as between China and India as the real loser are the soldiers and the civilians on each side.

Having say that, the thing that bothers me about people like Hari Sud is the lack of responsibility in journalism. He distort the facts and stir up India people against a country like China. The sad fact is that Hari is not along, there are many sensationalists inside India that are worse then him. North Korean communist propoganda stir up their people to keep their people in line. Indian journalists stir up their people to make a buck. If India is push to war with China and is defeated, it would be people like Hari that is to blame.


[ Flag ]
Louis @ December 6, 2009 06:39PM HKT

Due to only these 2 centuries of technological backwardness, China now has to stand on the shoulder of one giant (Russia). Copying is a very good way to learn and improve. From there, China will leap forward to produce world-will-be-in-awe-weapons for the rest to copy as what normally happened historically.And China will always be in the lead for next few millennial.

As for India, even with all US, Russia, France, Germany and Israel keen-babysitting.It is still unable to stand on the shoulders of these giants and don't know how to suck their milks even their breaks were tucked into its mouth.For Indian mouth is specifically for talking big, no action. You just check that even today India is unable to produce even an imported BULLET, let alone mass manufacture them.

India, obviously can't even COPY, from where you can innovate? Your so-called innovations will be lag donkeys years behind of the world.

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ December 6, 2009 03:27PM HKT
India is getting assistance from US, Russia, France, Germany and Israel. This is good as a lot of people would be willing to sell to India. China only has Russians as their only supplier. For the rest, they have to copy, steal or develop. However, this is a method to develop technology. When it comes to national security, there are no rules. A country must do all it can to protect its people. I understand that Hari give no credit to China for its ability to procur weapons (either by steal, copy or development) However, the fact is that China's defence ability is improving. A fact that Hari will try to cover up with his vilification of China. BTW, I'm not from China...

[ Flag ]
sara @ December 6, 2009 01:50PM HKT
Super power like china will always copy everything from U.S,russia and take assistance from isreal and other countries As china is having the great helping tendency it will give all this nuclear,missile design to pakistan.North korea
so ur great country will not copy anything from india bcoz with america,russia's stolen or copied design i guess china will send The nuclear-submarine to SUN for finding water in the coming years .

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ December 5, 2009 02:21PM HKT
China has no capability of developing its nuclear submarine. Its waiting for India to put the reactor into Arihant so it can steal the technology. As Hari would claim that China can only steal and has zero ability to develop. So I'm certain that China's spies are are gear up to steal Indian Arihand advance technology vehical blueprint.

[ Flag ]
sara @ December 5, 2009 01:18PM HKT
Then ur china will send it's nuclear submarine to Sun for finding water
that's what u chinese are thinking right

[ Flag ]
harisuck @ December 5, 2009 10:37AM HKT
Of course the plan placed by India is the most sophisticated. As the author is Hari. But he made a mistake when it comes to predicting the GDP growth. I thought Hari stated that Indian economy would increase by 12%. Why a sudden change to 6%? Hari, the number should always go up, not down when it comes to predicitng the Indian economy.

India would have the largest global economy in 5 years as US will fall into a great depression because Hari so, China would implode as Hari say so, and India economy will dominate the universe and send its new nuclear submarine to Mars to discover water.

[ Flag ]
Louis @ December 5, 2009 04:02AM HKT

HariSud has too much worry for China, but his master The New York Times disagrees with him and says "Growing, Yes, but India Has Reasons to Worry"(The article's title).

A real case of 'the tail wagging the dog' in HariSud's articles as always, ha...LOL.

But when you want to reason with them, they are all with their tails between their legs in front of the FACT and TRUTH, and resort to non-sense and violence instead as they love to.










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